Today I read a number of blogs that labored over things that happen during worship that might be distracting to the worshiper.
Worrying about whether or not our worship offering to God is distracting just seems silly. What is the Biblical precedence for this kind of thinking? I can't think of anything - sure there are passages that warn us about doing things for our own gain - but that isn't the same as worrying about being distracting.
When it comes to our worship offering we need to be concerned with excellence. Not whether or not person A or B is going to be distracted by something that is going on during the service. I have said this a thousand times: if somebody is distracted from giving God his due during our corporate worship offering, then the problem isn't the thing that distracted him in the first place, the problem is the individual's lack of discipline when it comes to worshiping God.
Back when I was learning to fly planes, I had an instructor who would jab me and throw things at me while I was working out particularly complicated problems. He did this while we were on the ground, he would do this while we were in the air. He would make me put on a hood and then make me put my head between my legs (as much as you can do in a little plane) then completely disorient the plane. Then he would say "OK, fix it. You have 10 seconds". So while I'm assessing and fixing, he would complicate things by hitting me in the head with the Snickers bar that he had in his pocket (this is probably why I don't like Snickers anymore).
While it was annoying, and even angering, it really helped me learn to focus in tight situations. Seems to me that if we want to make worshipers less distracted, the goal should be to allow more distractions during worship service (though, I'm not sure how to do this and accomplish excellence).
"It's also maddening when someone states that you're wrong about something and never acknowledges any response you may make to being declared wrong/incorrect/in sin/etc."
if you knew that ive been busy/gone all weekend (taking care of my disabled mom, cleaning her house, hanging out at the beach, building fires, throwing sticks and running with my dog, roasting mallows), maybe you wouldnt have made such a silly comment. i dont have a problem backing up what i say......patients is a virtue my friend.
yea, anyway.........back to the response.......we are to prefer others to ourselves, we are also to TRY (is the key word) and live peaceably with all men. in light of that, it would seem that the majority would rule. if most of the people in the church enjoy that the attire for the musicians is relaxed, then stay relaxed. if the person complaining is truly disturbed by the attire, they should go to a church where they will feel more comfortable.
you cant please everyone all the time, so its best to try and live at peace with the majority. keeping in mind "living peaceably with all men". we should seek that, but since we cant please all men, we should try to live peaceably with as many as we can.
and in light of people being "annoyed" or "stumbled"....its not up to us to make that decision. thats between them and the Lord. so if someone is bothered by something i am doing, then i should just stop. its really that simple.
Truce please--we're on the same team and pretty much are in agreement over the subject.
I realize that patience is a virtue and people are busy and don't get here for days at a time. My apologies to you for coming across as impatient. This thing happens in many threads where one person makes a provocative statement and never gets back to that thread. Thank you for not doing that here.
Now--I'm having trouble following you here. In one paragraph is this
"you cant please everyone all the time, so its best to try and live at peace with the majority. keeping in mind "living peaceably with all men". we should seek that, but since we cant please all men, we should try to live peaceably with as many as we can."
The next paragraph is this
"and in light of people being "annoyed" or "stumbled"....its not up to us to make that decision. thats between them and the Lord. so if someone is bothered by something i am doing, then i should just stop. its really that simple."
If the man is bothered by the sax, by the texting(even if it's subtle as you mentioned earlier in this thread), by picking my nose in front of him, etc. do I stop or not. Is it that simple? If so, where does it stop? I believe I was very courteous in my response and hope that we stay that way in the future. God bless you and your ministry.
yea man.....i hope this will clarify what im saying.....
1. no matter how hard we try, someone will always find fault in our actions. i.e., playing the saxophone. but, if the majority of the church likes the sax, then you must go with the majority and continue to play. by doing this, you seek peace with as many people as you can. the key phrase of the verse is, "(Rom 12:18) If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.".............if it is possible (this is the key phrase)..........so, you are trying to live peaceably with 2 separate groups of people, about the same subject.....you must take the group that has the most people, so that you can seek to live peaceably with as many as you can. and if living peaceably just wont happen, they (the minority group) needs to go to a church where they will not be stumbled (still using the sax as an example). or, if you dont feel ok with how things work out, then you must go to another fellowship. so we either seek to change what we are doing, or we do not have contact altogether.....in either case, we will be living peaceably.
2. it is not my place to decide whether or not someone is being simply "annoyed" with me, or truly "stumbled" by me. this issue refers to "why should i stop what im doing" (i.e., playing the sax in church or texting in church). the point (the main point), is that its not up to me to know what theyre (the annoyed person) motivation is. God knows their heart, not me. so if im texting in church and its annoying or stumbling to someone, then i just need to stop. on an issue that would involve more than just me and one other person, you should refer to the first point (clarification point #1) that i made.
it really is that simple, and thats not a sarcastic remark. if me picking my nose bothers someone else, i just need to stop looking at my own pride and put someone elses desires before my own, and submit. but like i said, if there is more than just me and one other person involved, then i need to refer to point #1 to clarify how i should react.
Well, any of the three are ok - texting, saxing, nose picking. But if he plays the sax and picks his nose between pauses and forgets to silence his phone so that text messages ding in during the solo, I'm going to be having a good ol' time laughing in the pews and then I'll be pointed out for being the distractor!
We can do fish as along as we do it with the fish dance.
I have to reply to your previous comments here because we ran out of "reply to this" buttons.
In response to your proof, your proof only stands up from the aspect of serving and humbling ourselves - but this doesn't always mean stop doing what we are doing for the sake of our brothers.
Serving can take many different approaches. And it is totally valid to serve your brother by saying to them "I'm sorry that texting (I use texting only as an example because it came up, replace texting with almost anything you want and the example will still stand), distracts you, let me help you get to the point that this doesn't bother you anymore."
Appeasement isn't always the best policy, in fact, I would suggest, that appeasement is most often the worst policy. We are trainers. Our job is to make people stronger. If we don't encourage them to go to the next level, then we have failed to do our jobs.
I really didn't understand what you meant when you say "distractions". Could you possibly give some examples? Worship really shouldn't be painful. I honestly believe that worship is something that happens before people even hit the door. Either they are going to prepare their hearts to hear from God and bless Him or not. Not sure you can "train" someone to worship correctly but made I misunderstood what you are saying. Once again I'm not sure what the distractions are.