Okay someone's got to ask - mosque near ground zero and tolerance.


2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

 3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.

 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

I'm pretty sure most of you are offended or disagree with this being allowed. I for one am against it as much as erecting a kamakazi pilot memorial at pearl harbor or a confederate soldier memorial over harriet tubman's grave.

We as the public don't seem to have much say over this matter. But I wanted to get others thoughts on the word tolerance versus favoritism on behalf of those allowing this. 

ps its my understanding the same organization was offered land a little further away at a discounted price. Is this yet another turn in our country?

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Well, I wouldn't say its the same as a kamakazi pilot memorial at Pearl Harbor or a confederate soldier memorial over Harriet Tubmans grave, because the kamakazi pilot and the confederate soldier were a part of an organized army under
the command of government military leadership. The terrorists responsible for 9/11 were rogue renegades and do not
represent the vast body of Muslim believers. It may be possible to look at the building of the Mosque as a step in
the direction of healing and reconciliation. I doubt many people will see it that way, but it is another perspective.
It could be seen as that step, but I heard that the Imam who is leading this project is in favor of instituting sharia law in the US, so it goes beyond the Twin Towers, it strikes at the heart of our constitution. Further, while the vast majority of Muslims don't subscribe to terrorism, the Q'ran is a different story - very militant as I read it. So it could be argued that the true followers who actually take it seriously are the terrorists. Whereas most terrorism is geo-political in nature, Muslim terrorism appears very "faith" based.
First off, let me say I'm a Canadian, and probably should stay out of the discussion altogether. However, starting with spending pretty every day of my 5 years of University (which seems like forever ago) with some of my closest friends being Muslims (and Hindus & Jews, we were very much like the UN), I do feel a kinship to them. These people have welcomed me into their homes, served as groomsmen at my weeding and after some secret family secrets, I still cook curry from scratch at least once a week. ;)

I've read what I think was the Penguin English translation of the Koran. If anything, I think the Koran is more poetic with strong use of imagery than the bible. If you've read the Koran, you can probably understand where I'm coming from. One of the first chapters in the Koran is called "cow". Also, many Muslims believe the power is within the original Arabic.

That specifically has a verse, which in my version was translated as:

"Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabbateans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - shall be reward by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret." (approx 2:63)

Here is article in National Geographic, with some Muslim scholars explaining that the Koran is actually a book of peace:


Maybe one day I'll have a chance to read and understand the original Arabic version. However, at the time it was written, in the context of the people Muhammad was trying to lead, I could see how some of the text would be about be willing to defend themselves. At the same time, that part of the world is also famous for the bedouin hospitality.


Maybe it has to be understood in context, like much of the bible.

Just a thought.
Like the UN? I certainly hope not...
Wayne - everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if you think Q'ran has any literary value...well. It rambles, has a lot of nonsense in it and really comes nowhere close to the literary quality of the Bible. But that's my opinion.

Also, it's easy to pick and choose what you want to hear, but the Q'ran's definition of peace is that which comes at the end of conflict, so yes, peace at the cost of war. There are also ten times more passages which command that Jews be hunted down.

And that whole "you have to read it in Arabic" thing is just a way to shut down any discussion to non-Arabs. What if we told everyone that about the Bible?

You're drinking the cool-aid.
This is probably adding fuel to the fire, but if trying to understand another culture that in need of saving is 'drinking the cool-aid', guilty as charged. I guess I see that like Paul's explanation in 1 Cor 9:19-23.

For me personally, I'm not about to judge all Muslim in one broad stroke, just as I am hoping they are not doing to me or us. I'm sure if outsiders were to judge the Christian faith by the 'cross' burnings and lynching of the KKK, they might be convinced it was "faith-based" too.

Even today some Christian scholars are still reviewing old world copies of the Bible in original text, and new translations are still being created even now. We don't just have one English version of the bible. We're not cut & dry about it, but I wouldn't say that some Christians don't have some similar concerns.

But, I think is both an emotional and divisive topic. As being lucky and blessed enough to not have lost anyone I know in the tragedy, I'm going to refrain from further commenting... If no thing else, all steps should be towards healing first, probably then tolerance/acceptance/reconciliation after. The pain that this event has cause is just inexplicable. My condolences for anyone who has lost someone through this horrific event.
I never said I was against Muslims in my comment, just the Q'ran. I think most Muslims are genuinely wonderful people. I don't judge them, I judge their book and it's pretty scary. Most Muslims are not scary.

New translations are not being created because of any new discovery of the old texts. If anything, each discovery only confirms that our Greek texts are accurate. But I can't think of a Christian scholar who claims that the true sense of the Bible is not known without reading it in the original Greek and Hebrew. But most Muslims I've met, terrorist or not, claim you have to read it in the Arabic to really understand it. It's bunk for them and it's bunk for us. Sometimes we do find that an English word isn't capable of conveying a particular Greek word, but that's not the whole Bible and that would be true of any language.
I think this American Muslim leader expresses an interesting (and probably correct) perspective: http://www.aifdemocracy.org/news.php?id=6131
That's a surprising article.
A very good article. Thanks for posting.
I saw this article on the news, along with several others that said about the same thing. Many Muslim organizations are requesting that the location be moved because regardless of our right to do something does not make it right. I 'could' protest the funerals of soldiers like our good friend Rev. Fred Crackpot, but I won't because it's wrong. I could start every morning by telling my neighbor that he's a stupid pooty-head (please excuse my potty mouth), but I don't because it would be wrong.

I think that if we are wise, we would begin this whole debate by clarifying what the debate is really about: not religious freedom but cultural sensitivity. The zoning committee is supposed to make decision for the good of the community, not merely decide what is already allowed by law.

If the Mosque is built it will be regretted by all parties involved.

Daniel, you are absolutely right
by saying its about cultural sensitivity.

70% of Americans lack it when they discriminate against Muslims that had nothing to do with 911. What is our government supposed to do, cave in the Islamic phobia and prejudice of the majority who can't tell apples from oranges? This is precisely why we have the laws that we do to protect the rights of the despised minority. You guys don't see that by arguing against this Islamic center you are joining the lynch mob and about to repeat that scene from "Unforgiven."


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